@mapletop Looks like a good bullet....but....are you fucking kidding me? $46 a box...with tax and shipping you're looking at probably $55 a box? For a 38 special snubby? These are the wadcutters I get. Fiocchi, 148 grain but little kick. It's really the kick that I focus on for a quicker reset, so it's not the bullet I worry about per se, it's the reset especially with a snubnose revolver. By the way, wouldn't you need decent rifling in your barrel for those bullets to have the desired effect? The rifling on my snubs is negligible at best. Probably work fine on my 4" plus barrel revolvers though.
@Londy3 Murph's Custom Leather east of Lake Norman...although his name is Cory. If you go to the link below, in the set of pictures that shows on his page, the middle one with the 9mm in it with the metal clip are the ones I always order for all my IWBs, although I get him to extend a piece of leather to cover the grip because I'm fat, and rough grips rub on my fatness; I also have him do that with my revolvers to save the finish on the grip because fat people (like me) sweat a lot and that erodes the finish on the custom grip.
The last time I ordered one from him, one of those IWBs was only about $40. You tell him what you want, you send him a check, and he sends you the holster--he usually has it done in a day or two. He has a real job and just does this on the side.
@mapletop I understand your point for sure, but I always practice with the ammo I carry; if you practice with ammo that shoots completely differently, has a different level of recoil, and different accuracy than what you carry every day, then you probably aren't training properly for those times when you really need to use what you have in your gun. Don't get me wrong, I do plink with guns I don't carry everyday, but for the guns I do (38 snub included), I always train with the ammo I carry in them.
I shoot whatever, so I can pick up any rock/stick/atlatl/sling/slingshot/crossbow/longbow/recurve bow/compound bow/potato gun/firearm/flintlock/caplock/matchlock/airgun/corkgun/blowgun/rubberband gun/spring gun/caliber/gauge/ammo combo and shoot well. I may not come out on top in a gunfight, but it was fun while it lasted😉 And, just so you know, I have hunted gophers with rocks (when my shoulder worked) and was successful. You don’t waste any meat with a rock to the brainpan, there’s not much on a gopher to start with😳
I understand where you're coming from and I've heard that many times, but there really is no other self defense round for a snub revolver that still maintains any level of accuracy. For instance, fragmentation rounds have almost zero accuracy out of a snub beyond 10 feet, and hollow points won't expand properly and/or consistently out of a snub. The ammo you proposed above needs decent rifling, and snubs simply don't have that.
Wadcutters, on the other hand, have a sharp edge to them that will cut, they're highly accurate (made for competitive shooting in fact), low recoil so you have a very quick reset, and were even the preferred defensive round carried by chiefs in their "chiefs' specials" years ago.
I do carry a soft lead semi-hollow point as backup ammo in a speed strip because they are easier to reload; they also don't expand, but the soft lead with the 'air pocket' in it will distort enough to create a decent wound, however, I always keep wadcutters in the gun as my primary "first five rounds".
Damn straight!!!! A step in the right direction here in this state!!!! 🎈🎈🎈🎈
By the way, I put the [purchase] in the title below because this is really what it is. Down here, if you don't have a CCW, you have to get a pistol purchase permit to buy a handgun which simply means that the Sheriff's department gets $15 of your money.
North Carolina lawmakers repeal pistol [purchase] permit requirement
I shouldn’t look at guns….I found this ‘proper’ snub while surfing. Now I need another Smith. It’s so short, one could almost remove the barrel and shoot straight from the cylinders, just make them a tad longer with a bit of rifling.
@RockyMountainBriar I've shot one of those at the range many times--a friend of mine has one that he won in a competition. Fun gun, but accuracy is horrible in my opinion--and I own a lot of snubs. The barrel is actually a tad longer than a standard snub (like a 637), so that's not as bad as the picture shows, and the kick isn't too bad because its so heavy. Can't really carry it though because the cylinder is so wide unless you open carry--it holds 7 or 8 rounds I think. Basically, as it sits, it's a fairly useless gun. Certainly a conversation piece at the range though; with the mags in it and all those rounds, it turns heads when it's rapid-fired, and it's pretty cool with some old fashioned cowboy rounds in it with the smoke-cloud and all. It is moon-clipped too, so that's nice.
In the end, I think its well over a grand retail; there are a lot of other guns I would like to own first, but if I was rich and had money to blow, I'd probably get one.
If S&W is Premier, the Original Colt Python’s are the Pinnacle. I like my Smith’s…a lot, but my Python makes my S&W’s seem like they are a Taurus. My S&W 629DX .44 is no slouch of a firearm. I’ve never had or fired an original Colt Anaconda, so I don’t know how it would compare?
@vtgrad2003 That snubby is an 8 shot, I wouldn’t use it for concealed carry. I just want it because I don’t have one, and it looks pretty cool (to me). As far as price, I was looking at the price of new S&W Model 60 Pro’s😳. They are looking like they are about twice what I paid for mine new, so it’s in the ballpark.
If I was independently wealthy, I would drop a $#!+load of cash on an HK Mark 23 SOCOM.
Decisions, decisions….I just got another set of grip panels for my Model 60’s/637. I like the scale look and the S&W medallions, but I thought the grips would be shorter than the laminated ones….nope, bigger even🙁. They look kinda big. I need to see if a speed loader will even clear? They cover the S&W logo on the left side…kinda irks me. They do provide a nice thumb rest. I guess I’ll keep a screwdriver and the selection of grips with me when I go to the range to see which I like better.
Speedloaders aren't very efficient on most snubs, especially the 637 line...learn how to use speed strips; plus, speed strips are a lot lighter and easier to carry. If you're carrying around a loader (or two) with you everywhere, you defeat the purpose of carrying a snub in the first place (i.e., light, not bulky, etc).
By the way, I've owned several non-Smiths over the years and salivated over the Cobra line a while back, so I bought one...worst god damn gun I've ever owned. In the first 100 rounds the frame cracked, then the cylinder malfunctioned, it never was accurate...basically an over-priced piece of crap that I had to sell to a gunsmith for next to nothing.
@vtgrad2003 I have some speed strips on order. I do have six speed loaders, three each for my two Model 60’s. I have not tried them yet.
I went out to my little brothers today for Easter Dinner. We also went out back and shot up a box of ammo each, and I couldn’t hit shit with my own 637, with either set of grips. I shot my little brother’s that he bought the same day. It still had the original rubber “boot grips” on it. I shot way better with his. Interestingly, he shot mine better than his own too. We didn’t swap though 🙂. We were shooting at 10 yards offhand and getting about 6” groups, slightly smaller. My astigmatism makes me shoot all of my pistols to the left side of center, it kinda sucks with fixed sights. My pistols with adjustable sights have the rear sight nearly run off the right sides of the pistols…all of them.
You had the new Cobra?, because they are not the same as a Python…actually the old Cobras are not Python’s either. Python’s are handmade and hand tuned. Original Python’s are much lighter frames than a Smith as well, almost like the Airweights in heft, so not exactly meant for hammering tons of .357 Magnum loads, they should still take it though. Did someone shoot hot loaded magnums out of the Cobra, I’v been around guns, lots and lots of guns, and I have never seen one of the “quality” manufacturers fail….yet. The machining, fit and finish on an original Python is like a Savinelli pipe. The Smith is close but not Savinelli quality…a Smith is better than a Peterson though….a Peterson is more like a Taurus😬
@RockyMountainBriar I probably mentioned this before that I used to shoot amateur snubby competition (a case of beer or a bottle were usually the first place prizes); there were about 10 of us dedicated shooters and every tournament there were probably 4 or 5 that rotated in and out. I stopped because they were shooting too often (I live over an hour from the range so you're talking about a 2 1/2 hour round trip each time).
That said, I'm now down to 5 snubs and always pace out 7 paces when I shoot which was always the requirement for the competitions. And no, we never used a tape and if you want to see a group of idiots argue over what the hell a pace is, our group put on a show! We had a short guy that would always bitch that he paced correctly...but none of us ever let the tall guy pace out the range.
7 paces is also about 21 feet and probably the extent of accuracy for something with a barrel under 2".
Anyway, I got really good at shooting snubs when I started focusing on single-action. Once I could rapid fire 4 out of 5 SAs in a 6" group at 7 paces, then I started focusing on DA. I think this difference is very important because the difference is about 4 lb pull to (in some cases) 12 lb pull. So focusing on the SA allowed me to master the kick and reset without worrying about the pull.
Also, and this is true with all my smith snubs, make sure the top sight is aligned all the way across...if off by a cunt hair on something with only a 1.75" barrel, you're off by a mile once it hits the target.
I have astigmatism too, wear contacts, and my right eye has a defective tear duct so it weeps occasionally, lol, so I know what you mean by that. I have issues with full sized pistols because of it, like a double-stack M&P where I have to cover the target up with the sight to be on target or I shoot low.
Also, I've mentioned this before, even though I will blow some standard 38 rounds through my snubs like LRNs or SWCs, mostly I shoot straight wadcutters. You should get yourself a couple of boxes of those and you'll see a huge difference on your reset.
These days, with Fiocchi wadcutters (which are the best in my opinion), at 7 paces I can put 9 out of 10 SAs in a 3" circle and usually shoot out the bulls completely with those 10 shots--and that's quick fire (less than rapid but much faster than stand-and-aim); DA I can usually put 7 out of 10 within 6" rapid fire.
So, my suggestion would be to 1. move to 7 paces, 2. focus on SA for while, and 3. use wadcutters.
On another note, my wife and I have owned so many handguns that I have had 'lemons' before, so it's not necessarily a knock on Colt that the Cobra sucked...I have a Smith Governor giving me some shit now in fact, what really pissed me off was that they wouldn't stand behind their product when the frame failed right after I bought it (and no, I wasn't shooting +P...I never shoot +P)--their response was literally "well, someone must have dropped it". I've had frames fail before, not often, but it has happened, and with my Smith's it was always no-questions-asked, send it back and well replace the frame (or any part for that matter). In fact, I had the frame replaced on the Governor I just mentioned...not only didn't it cost anything, they even covered shipping both ways and reimbursed me for my additional transfer fee (new frame = new serial number).
I'll rarely say that S&W is the best "gun" out there, but I'll always say S&W is the "best" manufacturer because their quality combined with their customer service, they really are the best in my opinion.
I am getting the itch for another carry and home gun. I like many of the features on this, a little overkill on the safety but I will take the good with the bad. Has anyone shot this S&W M&P9 EZ?
Yes, I have shot these EZs many times (both 9 and 380). The ported barrels are very nice and reduce kick tremendously, that said, I will say this:
I won't own a pistol without a safety...it's just stupid not to have one in my opinion given the light trigger pull and a bullet in the chamber (unlike a revolver, for instance). Anyway, the safety on that gun is the same as a full size M&P (which I have one) and is basically useless for carrying because it's not very stiff. In other words, the safety will disengage while carrying it which makes it useless. Other than that it's a great gun, extremely accurate, very easy to rack, although pricey and quite large for concealed carry. If you are looking for a CCW, I would suggest a 9mm Shield Plus.
Comments
Looks like a good bullet....but....are you fucking kidding me?
$46 a box...with tax and shipping you're looking at probably $55 a box? For a 38 special snubby?
These are the wadcutters I get. Fiocchi, 148 grain but little kick. It's really the kick that I focus on for a quicker reset, so it's not the bullet I worry about per se, it's the reset especially with a snubnose revolver.
By the way, wouldn't you need decent rifling in your barrel for those bullets to have the desired effect? The rifling on my snubs is negligible at best. Probably work fine on my 4" plus barrel revolvers though.
https://www.outdoorlimited.com/handgun-ammo/38-special/fiocchi-38-special-ammunition-fi38la-148-grain-lead-wadcutter-50-rounds/
Great looking and performing gun. I have one as well. Mine is the performance center with wood grips shown below.
@vtgrad2003
Who's the holster maker? Hook up man! I currently use 1791 Gunleather and like them pretty good. I like to support local artisans though.
Murph's Custom Leather east of Lake Norman...although his name is Cory. If you go to the link below, in the set of pictures that shows on his page, the middle one with the 9mm in it with the metal clip are the ones I always order for all my IWBs, although I get him to extend a piece of leather to cover the grip because I'm fat, and rough grips rub on my fatness; I also have him do that with my revolvers to save the finish on the grip because fat people (like me) sweat a lot and that erodes the finish on the custom grip.
The last time I ordered one from him, one of those IWBs was only about $40. You tell him what you want, you send him a check, and he sends you the holster--he usually has it done in a day or two. He has a real job and just does this on the side.
All my OWBs are Fobus.
https://murphscustomleather.com/
I understand your point for sure, but I always practice with the ammo I carry; if you practice with ammo that shoots completely differently, has a different level of recoil, and different accuracy than what you carry every day, then you probably aren't training properly for those times when you really need to use what you have in your gun. Don't get me wrong, I do plink with guns I don't carry everyday, but for the guns I do (38 snub included), I always train with the ammo I carry in them.
Thanks for the link, I'll check em out.
@mapletop
I am with @vtgrad2003 on this one. I train with the ammo I use but also have plinking ammo for fun.
And, just so you know, I have hunted gophers with rocks (when my shoulder worked) and was successful. You don’t waste any meat with a rock to the brainpan, there’s not much on a gopher to start with😳
I understand where you're coming from and I've heard that many times, but there really is no other self defense round for a snub revolver that still maintains any level of accuracy. For instance, fragmentation rounds have almost zero accuracy out of a snub beyond 10 feet, and hollow points won't expand properly and/or consistently out of a snub. The ammo you proposed above needs decent rifling, and snubs simply don't have that.
Wadcutters, on the other hand, have a sharp edge to them that will cut, they're highly accurate (made for competitive shooting in fact), low recoil so you have a very quick reset, and were even the preferred defensive round carried by chiefs in their "chiefs' specials" years ago.
I do carry a soft lead semi-hollow point as backup ammo in a speed strip because they are easier to reload; they also don't expand, but the soft lead with the 'air pocket' in it will distort enough to create a decent wound, however, I always keep wadcutters in the gun as my primary "first five rounds".
To each their own.
By the way, I put the [purchase] in the title below because this is really what it is. Down here, if you don't have a CCW, you have to get a pistol purchase permit to buy a handgun which simply means that the Sheriff's department gets $15 of your money.
North Carolina lawmakers repeal pistol [purchase] permit requirement
https://www.wxii12.com/article/north-carolina-legislators-repeal-pistol-permit-law/43453964
Whoohoo! Now we have to get rid of cooper
I never liked the looks of that gun. Way to snubby
I've shot one of those at the range many times--a friend of mine has one that he won in a competition. Fun gun, but accuracy is horrible in my opinion--and I own a lot of snubs. The barrel is actually a tad longer than a standard snub (like a 637), so that's not as bad as the picture shows, and the kick isn't too bad because its so heavy. Can't really carry it though because the cylinder is so wide unless you open carry--it holds 7 or 8 rounds I think. Basically, as it sits, it's a fairly useless gun. Certainly a conversation piece at the range though; with the mags in it and all those rounds, it turns heads when it's rapid-fired, and it's pretty cool with some old fashioned cowboy rounds in it with the smoke-cloud and all. It is moon-clipped too, so that's nice.
In the end, I think its well over a grand retail; there are a lot of other guns I would like to own first, but if I was rich and had money to blow, I'd probably get one.
@vtgrad2003
That snubby is an 8 shot, I wouldn’t use it for concealed carry. I just want it because I don’t have one, and it looks pretty cool (to me). As far as price, I was looking at the price of new S&W Model 60 Pro’s😳. They are looking like they are about twice what I paid for mine new, so it’s in the ballpark.
If I was independently wealthy, I would drop a $#!+load of cash on an HK Mark 23 SOCOM.
Great to see you here!!
Speedloaders aren't very efficient on most snubs, especially the 637 line...learn how to use speed strips; plus, speed strips are a lot lighter and easier to carry. If you're carrying around a loader (or two) with you everywhere, you defeat the purpose of carrying a snub in the first place (i.e., light, not bulky, etc).
By the way, I've owned several non-Smiths over the years and salivated over the Cobra line a while back, so I bought one...worst god damn gun I've ever owned. In the first 100 rounds the frame cracked, then the cylinder malfunctioned, it never was accurate...basically an over-priced piece of crap that I had to sell to a gunsmith for next to nothing.
But to each their own.
I have some speed strips on order. I do have six speed loaders, three each for my two Model 60’s. I have not tried them yet.
You had the new Cobra?, because they are not the same as a Python…actually the old Cobras are not Python’s either. Python’s are handmade and hand tuned. Original Python’s are much lighter frames than a Smith as well, almost like the Airweights in heft, so not exactly meant for hammering tons of .357 Magnum loads, they should still take it though. Did someone shoot hot loaded magnums out of the Cobra, I’v been around guns, lots and lots of guns, and I have never seen one of the “quality” manufacturers fail….yet. The machining, fit and finish on an original Python is like a Savinelli pipe. The Smith is close but not Savinelli quality…a Smith is better than a Peterson though….a Peterson is more like a Taurus😬
I probably mentioned this before that I used to shoot amateur snubby competition (a case of beer or a bottle were usually the first place prizes); there were about 10 of us dedicated shooters and every tournament there were probably 4 or 5 that rotated in and out. I stopped because they were shooting too often (I live over an hour from the range so you're talking about a 2 1/2 hour round trip each time).
That said, I'm now down to 5 snubs and always pace out 7 paces when I shoot which was always the requirement for the competitions. And no, we never used a tape and if you want to see a group of idiots argue over what the hell a pace is, our group put on a show! We had a short guy that would always bitch that he paced correctly...but none of us ever let the tall guy pace out the range.
7 paces is also about 21 feet and probably the extent of accuracy for something with a barrel under 2".
Anyway, I got really good at shooting snubs when I started focusing on single-action. Once I could rapid fire 4 out of 5 SAs in a 6" group at 7 paces, then I started focusing on DA. I think this difference is very important because the difference is about 4 lb pull to (in some cases) 12 lb pull. So focusing on the SA allowed me to master the kick and reset without worrying about the pull.
Also, and this is true with all my smith snubs, make sure the top sight is aligned all the way across...if off by a cunt hair on something with only a 1.75" barrel, you're off by a mile once it hits the target.
I have astigmatism too, wear contacts, and my right eye has a defective tear duct so it weeps occasionally, lol, so I know what you mean by that. I have issues with full sized pistols because of it, like a double-stack M&P where I have to cover the target up with the sight to be on target or I shoot low.
Also, I've mentioned this before, even though I will blow some standard 38 rounds through my snubs like LRNs or SWCs, mostly I shoot straight wadcutters. You should get yourself a couple of boxes of those and you'll see a huge difference on your reset.
These days, with Fiocchi wadcutters (which are the best in my opinion), at 7 paces I can put 9 out of 10 SAs in a 3" circle and usually shoot out the bulls completely with those 10 shots--and that's quick fire (less than rapid but much faster than stand-and-aim); DA I can usually put 7 out of 10 within 6" rapid fire.
So, my suggestion would be to 1. move to 7 paces, 2. focus on SA for while, and 3. use wadcutters.
On another note, my wife and I have owned so many handguns that I have had 'lemons' before, so it's not necessarily a knock on Colt that the Cobra sucked...I have a Smith Governor giving me some shit now in fact, what really pissed me off was that they wouldn't stand behind their product when the frame failed right after I bought it (and no, I wasn't shooting +P...I never shoot +P)--their response was literally "well, someone must have dropped it". I've had frames fail before, not often, but it has happened, and with my Smith's it was always no-questions-asked, send it back and well replace the frame (or any part for that matter). In fact, I had the frame replaced on the Governor I just mentioned...not only didn't it cost anything, they even covered shipping both ways and reimbursed me for my additional transfer fee (new frame = new serial number).
I'll rarely say that S&W is the best "gun" out there, but I'll always say S&W is the "best" manufacturer because their quality combined with their customer service, they really are the best in my opinion.
MAGA-zine laser engraved 30 round Magpul PMAG.
Has anyone shot this S&W M&P9 EZ?
Nope, looks kinda cool though. I would think the open slide cuts would suck in a carry gun….what if something got stuck/wedged in there?
Yes, I have shot these EZs many times (both 9 and 380). The ported barrels are very nice and reduce kick tremendously, that said, I will say this:
I won't own a pistol without a safety...it's just stupid not to have one in my opinion given the light trigger pull and a bullet in the chamber (unlike a revolver, for instance). Anyway, the safety on that gun is the same as a full size M&P (which I have one) and is basically useless for carrying because it's not very stiff. In other words, the safety will disengage while carrying it which makes it useless. Other than that it's a great gun, extremely accurate, very easy to rack, although pricey and quite large for concealed carry. If you are looking for a CCW, I would suggest a 9mm Shield Plus.
How'd you do that?