New FDA Regs and pipe smoking

crapgame

So how will the new regs the feds handed down today on tobacco change the world of pipe smoking?

PipesNCircumstance

I think it's just another attempt at control from those who are supposed to uphold the liberties of the American public.

kraigseder

I need to read up on this more but I think tobacco blends that were in production before a certain date are grandfathered in. I think this date is 2007.  Any newer blends must be submitted for analysis on their ingredients. It's so frustrating to be lumped in with the cigarette industry. 

I know I'll be buying several pounds of McClelland & Peter Stokkebye.

Here's a link to their edict to the little people - http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm499234.htm

Today’s rule also requires manufacturers of all newly-regulated products, to show that the products meet the applicable public health standard set forth in the law and receive marketing authorization from the FDA, unless the product was on the market as of Feb. 15, 2007. The tobacco product review process gives the agency the ability to evaluate important factors such as ingredients, product design and health risks, as well as their appeal to youth and non-users.

These requirements include:

• Registering manufacturing establishments and providing product listings to the FDA;
• Reporting ingredients, and harmful and potentially harmful constituents;
• Requiring premarket review and authorization of new tobacco products by the FDA;
• Placing health warnings on product packages and advertisements; and
• Not selling modified risk tobacco products (including those described as “light,” “low,” or “mild”) unless authorized by the FDA.

kornfreak78

Been pretty worried about this since I heard about it.  I was under the impression that all pipe tobacco and cigars will no longer be sold online and that both would be highly taxed and only sold in select stores across the USA.   Not sure what all is going to happen, but I am a bit worried seeing as I get 100% of my pipe tobacco online.

pylorns

It's very disconcerting, for sure.  My pipe purchases are on hold to stock up on new tobacco blends post 2007 that I enjoy.  

piperdave

If I read the FDA's website correctly they lumped together Hookah and pipe tobacco together. I am not sure if I understand the new regulation but it sounds to me like components are included such as pipes?

In 2016, FDA finalized a rule extending our regulatory authority to cover all tobacco products, including pipe tobacco. FDA now regulates the manufacture, import, packaging, labeling, advertising, promotion, sale, and distribution of pipe tobacco. This includes components and parts such as pipes, but excludes accessories such as lighters.

Also, Retailers will no longer be able to provide a free sample of tobacco. I really enjoyed being able to try different blends before purchasing larger quantities.

• Do NOT give away free samples of hookah or pipe tobacco, including any of their components or parts

PappyJoe

What I don't understand is how the FDA can finalize a rule extending their regulatory authority. Isn't that government run amok when an agency can decided what it has authority over? I thought that was the job of Congress.

hloakes

PappyJoe,

Congress is a spineless group that would rather delegate their authority than stand up for their beliefs and offend a constituent. It is also easier to make sweeping regulations than to spend time making sure the regulations fulfill the intended purpose.

PappyJoe

First shot fired: http://cigar-coop.com/2016/05/news-e-liquid-company-files-first-legal-challenge-against-fda.html

CIgarMitch

e-cigs and gaping had a target on their back- and they just swept up cigars and pipe tobacco to finalize all products that contain nicotine. I enjoy both pipes and cigars, and am still trying to figure out what I want to do- I might just ride it out with the stock I have a re-discover pre-2007 blends and cigars. I might not... it changes as quick as the smoke does. 

Htowncigarbabe

It frustrates me that the FDA has lumped pipe and cigars into the cigarette regulations. E-cigs if anything else, need some sort of regulation. There is so much more than nicotine in them and they are constantly shoving new e-cig products out on the market with no general knowledge of what you are actually smoking. FDA acts like every time a tobacco product is sold 3 babies and a kitten die or that it is being sold to a minor. Can't say that I have ever experienced selling a cigar or pipe tobacco to a minor- but I have had issues with them wanting e-cigs!

daveinlax

I've over bought pipe tobacco and have a lifetime in the cellar but unfortunately most "pipe tobacco" sold is relabeled RYO cigarette tobacco so I think were screwed because loose tobacco looks about he same to he non pipe geek eye. Cigars are another matter for me but premium cigars have the CRA funding a really good full time lobbyist that is trying to get a premium hand rolled exemption from the "little Cigar" cigarettes.      

ScottW

Big government and big tobacco cigarette makers got in bed together.  This is their offspring: government overreach which gives big tobacco companies a clearer path to monopoly against recent competition brought-on by the exploding eCig small-business industry.  It also gives a big government more authority over small businesses and more tax revenues from all involved.  And, Americans got less freedom.  Small businesses and individual consumers foot the bill every time.

JasonMill

So.  Let me get this right...  The FDA is using authority granted to it in 2009 to pull products off the shelf that were around before it had authority to regulate any tobacco product? (2007)

ScottW

So, was this thing passed through Congress?

pylorns

The regulation did not go through congress, the ability for a beurocratic agency with no elected officials or oversight to regulate tobacco was passed through congress. 

ScottW

It says there was an act in 2007 to regulate the tobacco industry that they are using to push these new regulations.  That would have had to come through congress, right?

piperdave

If anyone is interested here is a link to NATO (National Association of Tobacco Outlets) they have a pre-drafted letter you can fill in your information and send it (electronically or print and mail) to your 2 U.S. Senators and your U.S. Representative urging them to delay the implementation of the FDA deeming regulations because of the impact it will have on retails stores. The webpage it opens will have 2 links to choose; 1 is for Retailers and 1 is for Consumers. http://www.natocentral.org/fda/send-letters-to-congress

thewanderingdude

@piperdave Thanks for putting this up sir!

JoeHandyman

Citizens of the United States will continue to be over regulated and have less freedom until enough of them get disgusted with the current two party system and start voting for a party that believes in liberty.

CACooper

If you like your tobacco, you can keep your tobacco. No worries.

flamanar

This has been on my mind alot, as it seems like only the cigar and vaping industry is trying to challenge this latest debacle.  I haven't heard or seen much outrage from the pipe sector.  I think we're rather screwed, as it seems the FDA is most concerned with 'flavored tobacco products'.  AFAIK, most pipe tobacco has some kind of flavor added.  I also think the companies that are releasing RYO tobacco in bulk and labeling it 'pipe tobacco' are the ones who got us the most screwed in the end.  There's alot of mention in the FDA doc (which is over 500 pages, btw) about how this is about youth, and the flavors attracting youth to it.  Seems like they completely discount the fact that pretty much NO young people are buying $10+ premium cigars to smoke pot in, and the same goes with pipe tobacco.  NEVER seen a youth trying to buy either!  It's the mass-marketed, cheap tobacco products that the kids go for.  But we're lumped in.  No idea how this will shake out, but I've already witnessed 2 'casualties' of this latest FDA decision so far:

1)  PipesandCigars.com sent an email around saying their pipe tobacco that is under the label of 'Russ's Blends' (an in-house tobacco blender that had a fair amount of extremely popular pipe tobacco) will no longer be carried, and to get it while it lasts.  They blamed the FDA for the decision.  I happen to like most of that guys blends, btw

2)  Missouri Meerschaum:  MM is mostly known for their cob pipes, but they also released 4 different tobaccos under their name awhile back.  I had purchased all 4 last year sometime.  It's all since become scarce to non-existent as far as I can see.  I asked them on their Facebook page if they were 'one-offs', or if they'll be replenishing their stocks of their tobaccos.  They replied that due to the FDA decision, they probably won't be selling MM tobacco anymore.  They had some nice blends.

Those are just the first two that I know of...and that has adversely affected me.  I know it won't be the last, and I dread what comes in the future.  It seems like pipe tobacco will be an easy 'take-down' by the FDA, and they'll end up either taxing it to death or banning it.  Unbelievable stuff.

flamanar

Involuntary double-post.  Hiccup with the forum software.  Sorry 'bout that folks.

PappyJoe

I figured Missouri Meerschaum would be out of the pipe tobacco business. It's a shame, I really like Independence Day from them. Fortunately I still have two unopened tins.

PipeProfessor

I think there is a real change coming, but many in the pipe community don't want to accept it and are going on as life as usual...however I say it's time to stock...now, where can I find quality pipe tobacco and decent prices for large quantities?! 

PappyJoe

I'm starting to pitch my tent near @PipeProfessor and will be receiving an order today of some tobacco I've wanted to try before it becomes unavailable. On the other hand, while custom blends by the local tobacconist will not be available and probably 50% of the current top selling tobaccos will be unavailable, There are still a good number of blends that are available and were on the market before 2007. So we will be able to buy pipe tobacco. 

PipeProfessor

Agreed @pappyjoe. There will still be older blends (pre 2007), but the newer ones will be hard to find.

PipeProfessor

Also, it will take a loooong time for the new blends to make it to market.

LostMason

Correct me if I'm wrong,but in my reading of the new regs I took it to say that imports as well as domestic
will be subject to these changes.If I'm correct doesn't this mean that any pipe tobacco and cigars that were
not actively being imported and sold in Feb 2007 will also be pulled and required to re-apply?Wouldn't this kill
any and all Cuban products again?Not to mention the newer cigar lables.I realize many here are only looking
at the pipe tobaccos,but the way I see it,with the stroke of a pen these APPOINTED lackies have just put
thousands of people (here and overseas) out of work.

PappyJoe

LostMason, you've read it the same way I have. I have faith that the socialist in power in the country will rectify the problem with Cuban products as soon as they wake up and realize that the ban is bad for the Cuban economy. They don't give dog feces about anything else.

LostMason

Sadly that is too true @PappyJoe , however  there is still the chance that we will have legilation passed to at least
delay the "effictive date".There are bills in both the House and Senate and just might be enough senators and
congressmen who indulge that they can over come any veto.I fear that where we were once looked upon as
the sage older generation to now the old codgers hanging on to an unhealthy lifestyle and as such need to be
regulated to the point we are all commited as mentally unstable.Oh well, I guess the time will come when I stuff
my pipe with my copy of the constitution cause it doesn't hold any influence any more.