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The State of B&M Tobacconists in the US.

SERENTILSERENTIL Newcomer

Recently, one of the few pipe tobacconists nearby closed up their doors and consolidated their wares into their last remaining store.  I asked why and was simply told that they could no longer remain viable having two stores.  The effects of Prop 56 (California tobacco tax) hit them very hard and drove many of their customers to online vendors.  I asked if they were worried about the FDA Deeming Rules and the owner simply said 'no, there will always be pipe tobacco on the shelves as long as we are still in business.'  Perhaps a bit of a cavalier and contradictory response seeing as how the FDA is intent on waging a war against our pastime that will have no end in sight. 

Anyone else seeing this trend in their neck of the woods?

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Comments

  • Quite the opposite. On Saturday I found a tobacconist that is only a year old. Mostly a cigar shop with a modest selection of pipes and tobacco but a smoking lounge with 4 large tv's and seating for 25. And they are in the process of opening a second location.
  • Our local B&M Smitty's is expanding their pipe and tobacco selection after becoming mostly a cigar shop over the years.  
    They've recently remodeled and encourage smokers to sit and smoke awhile.
    Even as a beginner compared the others there, I've been made to feel welcome by staff and owners as well as the other smokers who are there when I visit.


  • motie2motie2 Master
    Again, the only nearby B&M shop is a cigar-centric store that carries almost nothing for pipe smokers. However, the owner said he'd order anything I want (at a mark-up is left unsaid.) 

    Heck, I can order anything I want online and get it cheaper.  So it goes.
  • Smokem if you Got 'Em is the "new" shop in Mandeville, LA. They also just started their own Pipe Club earlier this month. The owner said he wants to expand the pipe and pipe tobacco side of the business.
  • Local tobacconist's will adapt and overcome in the short run, but make no mistake, the nanny's have every intention of outlawing tobacco in the long term. The fact that the FDA wants to include pipes and cigars, along with vaping products in the deeming regulations is proof. It makes sense to me, that the long term effects of vaping are yet to be seen, so outlawing those products made after 2007 makes some sense. However, pipe tobacco and cigars have been around for hundreds of years, and the long term effects have already been proven.

    In the past, revenue has always been the final justification, and my guess is that additional collection of revenues will be the only way the industry will be allowed to grow and thrive.

    On an optimistic note, if a person takes the time to research history, they will find that tobacco has always been under fire. When the Native Americans gifted tobacco to the Europeans, and they carried it back to Europe, the nanny's immediately felt the need to eradicate the leaf. Many monarchs and dictators put tobacco users to death over their consumption of the leaf. As with various religions, this fight has been an ongoing war for a very long time.

    As of right now, in my neck of the woods, things remain the same on the local B&M scene. However, I think some folks are hoping for a positive outcome in the pending lawsuits, and may already have an exit strategy planned if they feel the need.

  • SERENTILSERENTIL Newcomer
    Hmm... sounds like y'all are from the East or the South. California is feeling the pressure to punish 'big tobacco' and anyone that sells it or consumes it in whatever form it may come in.   As long as online tobacconists exist, I will have a supplier. The price-point at the one local tobacconist that I previously mentioned is way above my comfort level.

    As an example, see below.

    Capture
  • The rents on businesses are insane in the bigger cities and their burbs. a corner coffee and sandwich shop in NYC that's been in business for 30 years had their rent raised from $7,800 a month to $15,800 and are closing their doors. Small businesses are being squeezed out by Greed and Taxes.( Official Greed). The taxes are going ballistic in many states. Many state Rip Off Artists, Oops, State elected officials that really care about us, are trying to tax internet sales. Amazon opened a Warehouse in NJ so now all the stuff ordered through them is taxed, even stuff sent from other states ordered through them.

    Cellaring is looking more and more like the thing to do. Look for real sales on tobacco as the "Nazi like Deeming" gets closer. I'm seeing some good ones but, they sell out quick

    I'm starting to use my cellar as a pantry more now, I still order tobacco from time to time, but I'm going through my drawers looking for stuff I don't favor to clear some room as well.

  • mfresamfresa Master
    Start growing and processing your own.
  • My son is in the process of buying 65 acres in Virginia. He plans to take an acre or two and grow tobacco and hops. 
  • I'm not leaving nothing to chance. I'm stocking up enough of the blends I like to last me till my dying breath. Regardless of what Hell rains down upon us after the Deeming Regulations go into effect you can be sure that tobacco will never be cheaper than it is today. One tactic always used to dissuade costumers from buying a product is to tax it to death. And I expect that to be one of the major consequences of the Deeming Regulation. So in the time allowed (and as your budget allows) hoard as much of the stuff as you can. Take advantage of the on-line sales when you see them pop-up. Thankfully tobacco, unlike pork and beans or bread, has a virtually limitless shelf life provided you pay special attention to your long term storage techniques.

    Unlike many of the responses above my particular area has no place to buy quality pipe tobacco. We have one cigar bar that opened a while back - but it sells nothing for pipe smokers. We have a plethora of "Smokes For Less" that have a few popular OTC blends and giant bags of cheap bulk brands like Jester, Largo, Gambler, 4 Aces, and Smoker's Pride ... but that's about it. We have literally thousands of restaurant chains, shoe stores, clothing stores, coffee shops, office supply stores, sports equipment ... but since The Tinder Box closed it's doors at the Mall not one tobacco shop. I have to travel to Chicago before I can find one. And I'm not getting on I-94 expressway loaded with maniacs driving bumper to bumper at 65 miles per hour to buy a few tins of Molto Dolce when I can get it for half the price on line. Yet I would be more than willing to support a local brick and mortar shop if it opened near me, even if I had to pay more for my tobacco ... just to keep the guy or gal in business.

    So I envy all you with  a B&M within driving distance. But in the meantime - slowly but surely - I'm making sure my cellar is stocked.       

  • motie2motie2 Master
    @ghostsofpompeii --Semper paratus, eh?  (with apologies to @PappyJoe)
  • @serentil Are you by chance talking about BriarPatch, Loehmann's Plaza in Sacramento?
  • @motie2 Well I was never in the Coast Guard but we Boy Scouts had a similar motto "Be Prepared".
  • "Be Prepared". That's the Boy Scout's marching song.

    "Be" Prepared, don't let anything go wrong.

    If you're looking for Adventure of a new and different kind.

    And you find a little Girl Scout that is similarly inclined.

    Don't be nervous, don't be frightened, don't be scared.

    "Be Prepared"!


    Tom Lehrer

  • dbh1950dbh1950 Newcomer
    Having worked part time many years ago in a B&M pipe and tobacco store, owned by a friend, I saw the real cost of business related to this particular type of business. Rent, payroll, taxes, insurance, etc. require a tremendous amount of sales, not just walk in, but the shipping of pounds of tobacco. Some of his largest sales went to Canadians that were returning from vacation in the US stocking up on pipe tobacco, avoiding the significant tax on tobacco products sold in Canada. The B&M did close after about ten years in business, largely due to health issues, unrelated to pipe smoking.
    From my current position, there is simply no alternative but to order on line for me, yet I could not be more pleased. I can purchase pipes and tobacco from my easy chair by using my smart phone. Excellent prices and massive tobaccos to choose from. 
  • @dbh1950 - You've seen the hidden truth behind all retailers - they don't make a lot of profit per item when all is said and done. 

    For the past 15 years, I have worked producing advertising for grocery stores and that has given me access to the data bases which shows the cost they pay for what is on the shelves. In the process, I have also gotten to be friends with a few of the store owners and they have shown me some interesting facts. Everyone likes to rant about high prices and "Why can Walmart sell it cheaper" but they don't understand a couple of things.

    Walmart goes to a manufacturer/producer and says "Sell it to us at this price and we will buy a million cans." And the get a better price than what a grocery distributor buying a 100,000 cans will get. Walmart may sell can beans for 10¢ a can less than your major supermarket, but their profit margin on that can is probably 20%. That can of beans not only cost more at your major supermarket but the profit margin is probably only 10%. If its a small town, independent grocer, that profit margin is usually around 5% and sometimes even less. Then you have to subtract all the overhead from that "profit".

    The same applies to B&M's versus the major online pipes and tobacco retailers. The big ones are well connected to the manufacturers so they get their products cheaper, can sell at a lower cost and make a higher profit. The local retailers have to buy from the distributors and probably pay just a little less than what we do online. Then they have to mark-up the products to make a profit. 
  • motie2motie2 Master
    @ghostsofpompeii -- I mentioned "apologies to @PappyJoe" because Semper Paratus is the motto of the US Coast Guard.

    download
  • motie2motie2 Master
    Found a old-time tobacco shop tucked away in Cleveland OH's historic Little Italy

  • I'm all about supporting the small business (especially local tobacconists), but I get it.  Cash flow is an issue we all deal with.  If I were to buy a pound of Dunhill's EMP from my local tobacconist, it would cost me $160 ($10 per ounce).  However, I can go to just about any online retailer and get that same pound for under $60.  This is a conundrum I've found myself in for years.  I'm at the age to where I began seeing the slow death of all kinds of B&M stores starting in my early teens.  I hate to admit it, but its the way the world is going.
  • PhilipPhilip Enthusiast
    If you look at what's coming out of the recent retailer's convention the boutique cigars are what seem to be hot right now. As Mr. Pappy said the cigar end of the market is doing better, much like the little independent micro breweries.  If you have one in the area you should encourage them to stock pipe tobacco as well and see where it goes. I try to spread my business around as much as I can but it's only a drop in the bucket. 

    I will say this, buying a pipe you can hold in your hand beats the internet hands down. I'll only buy online if the deal is too good to pass up.
  • It's not the on-line retailers putting the small B&M tobacco shops out of business, it's the ridiculous state, local and federal taxes and anti-smoking regulations that are doing most of the damage. In another discussion @buflosab mentioned 1-1/2 oz. of Captain Black costing $17.99 at a drugstore. That is ridiculous when you consider that most of that are the taxes that you don't pay when you shop on-line. 

    I shop on-line at times, but I also spend a little more and shop at the B&M's that are 35-40 minutes away from me. I like being able to walk in, pick out something I want to smoke and not have to wait 3 - 5 days to get it.


  • @motie2, that one that you mentioned in Little Italy is a cigar shop only, nothing pipe related at all, not even pipe cleaners.
  • motie2motie2 Master
    OK, but we've got more than a few stick fans in TPL, no?
  • PhilipPhilip Enthusiast
    I didn't include this before but I'm convinced it's true. Mr. Pappy is 100% correct re: the iron fist of government, but I think the recent wave of regulations is because of vaping (it's some hipster thing I think). I believe the government and some special interest wack-jobs want that nipped in the bud and shut down. Pipe and cigar smokers have been an also ran when it comes to going after tobacco, but in this case the rules going after the vapors have encompassed traditional pipe smokers as well and now they are just going with the flow. 

    Of course if you have integrity you can't think it's alright to shut down the people who like to suck on battery powered pipes, just leave me alone. The principled response is it's all none of their business. 

    Why do we have to defend ourselves like this? Shouldn't it be the other way around, the government explaining themselves to us why they do what they do?


  • SERENTILSERENTIL Newcomer
    @Philip, The 'Nanny-State' doesn't see it like that.  We are mindless sheep that need the good hand of the 'smarter' shepherd(s) to guide us into a healthier life-style.  It's all very ironic when you consider that alcohol is by far the most abused legal vice.  Tobacco is such small potatoes in comparison but, as with any 'Nanny-State' mentality, they go for the low-hanging fruit first so that they can put another medal on their chest.  Tobacco regulations are not necessarily a bad thing but they become draconic when they reach too far which is what we are seeing happen now.  The irony of it all is even more apparent as states begin to legalize or de-criminalize marijuana. 
  • mseddonmseddon Professor
    We desperately need our B&M stores. I try to buy at least a third of my tobacco and most of my pipes from them, even though, yes, the markup they have to apply makes it more expensive, sometimes double the price. A major thing they provide that online store can never provide is an indoor smoking venue. I sometimes wonder if just setting up a smoking lounge and charging for membership and then providing just the most popular of blends and pipes would be a viable option. There's a lounge here in Austin, but they charge astronomical rates to join. Could it be done in a less expensive manner and still be sustainable?
  • motie2motie2 Master
    Oh, goodie! Another political discussion with name calling and derogatory descriptions.

    "Iron fist of government .... special interest wack-jobs .... Nanny-State mentality ... so that they can put another medal on their chest."

     I think the Deeming Regs are ill considered, too, but I can express my opinion without name calling.

    And where is our populist Commander in Chief? Why hasn't he stepped in and put an end to the nonsense?

    Maybe we can have a TPL flame war; I'll sell tickets......


  • motie2motie2 Master
    @Philip -- I'm with your previous post, a bit above.

    Patrick Henry
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