Food Grade Heat Sealed Bags for Cellaring

xDutchx

I am considering using this method to store some of my tobaccos, which are packaged in square tins and struggle to maintain a seal. I am curious as to whether any of you are currently storing tobacco using these style bags, and if so, can you give any advice concerning this method.

I am specifically curious, as to whether there are bags on the market, that are high enough grade, that they could last possibly 25 to 30 years.

I also notice that there are several different types/styles of heat sealing machines. Would the style of machine be critical, if used in a tobacco application? Thanks for any tips or advice anyone can offer.

daveinlax

I've had no issues aging Esoterica tobacco in their Mylar bags for 10 plus years. I know tobacco keeps a long time in Food Saver freezer bags but I don't know if they would keep 25 to 30 years. 

xDutchx

@daveinlax, I was hoping to get away from mason jars for a few reasons. They are heavy, fragile, and can lose their seal if not heated and sealed properly. I figured since the Mylar bags are so affordable, there might be a super high grade version out there, that could have the longevity to last decades.

Thing is, most applications are intended for food, but I thought there might be something available that could make mason jars obsolete.

PappyJoe

@daveinlax - Do you heat seal or vacuum seal your tobacco in the Mylar bags? Is there a difference between Mylar and the Food Saver freezer bags or is that just a brand name for Mylar bags?

inwithbacchus

@pappyjoe There is a difference between the bags mainly due to how their contents are processed.

Mylar bags are like Saran wrap on steroids. They block light and greatly reduce the amount of oxygen that is in contact with the product inside. They do let SOME oxygen in but not much. This means that whatever is inside is in contact with air at all times.

Food Saver bags are poly-layered bags that don't block light but completely block oxygen flow. This allows the Food Saver to suck out all the air from inside the bag to vacuum seal it and KEEP it vacuum sealed.

Vacuum sealing gives a much better shelf-life over Mylar because there is no oxygen in it. A lot of MREs have vacuum sealed components in it because it makes them bulletproof. But in the case of tobacco, I feel like aging SHOULD have some interaction with oxygen in order to let the chemical processes that makes aged tobacco so good happen. Unfortunately, I don't know of any bags that'll last 25 to 30 years with a seal intact. They all fail eventually.

DavidR002

Heirloom Organics

Heirloom Organics NON-GMO Tobacco Seed Pack - 7 Varieties Non-Hybrid Tobacco Seeds - Hermetically Sealed for Long Term Storage

Philip

How would that effect the aging process? 

xDutchx

@Philip, here's a couple links you may find interesting by Russ Ouellette and Greg Pease, concerning aerobic vs. anaerobic aging. After reading these articles, some pipe smokers have come to the conclusion that they need to transfer their tobaccos out of the European style tins into mason jars, for optimal results. Instead of heating the jar in hot water before sealing, Pease recommends applying the lid and dipping it in melted paraffin wax, in order to leave the oxygen inside the mason jar and maintain an airtight seal.

The vacuum style bags wouldn't allow any oxygen, so that would most likely affect the aging process. It seems to me, that not having to deal with pulling the air out of the bag while sealing, would make the process easier anyhow. Pease recommends double bagging, because he noted that some drying of the tobacco occurs using plastic pouches.

After all considerations, it would appear that the venerable mason jar dipped in paraffin wax, is the best bet for maximum results. That paraffin seal makes a real mess, once it's time to open the jar though, and if your not careful, you can end up picking wax out of your tobacco.

Don't ask me how I know.

http://www.talkingtobacco.com/2012/07/pipe-tobacco-academy-aging-pipe-tobacco/

http://glpease.com/Articles/vacuum.html

Philip

Thanks for the links Mr. Dutch, I'll go over them first chance I get. Currently I use the mason jars but do not seal them with wax. Aging is just further oxidizing so it seems like there has to be some O2 available. Tobaccos like Frog Morton age very well but those are in sealed food-grade containers. I'm wondering if it is 100% sealed? When I originally read this post I thought, what if I were to take a tin of something and vacuum seal that in a bag? Not taking it out and putting it in a jar. I've learned that not putting them in jars is not a good idea because that same oxidation happens to the tin as well. 

Probably going to stick to the jars unless otherwise convinced there's a better way. Although, sealing them with wax sounds like the way to go.

xDutchx

Philip, the way I comprehended the recommendations, is that oxidation allows fermentation. This is what you want with blends that incorporate Orientals, and even more so with tobaccos with high sugar content that incorporate Virginias. Conversely, by vacuum sealing and taking all the air out of a container, you could actually preserve a blend that seems to lose some of it's flavor with aging, such as blends that are predominately Latakia.

It would seem to me, that it could take quite a few years and experimentation, to figure out which blends were better without age, because that would be determined by personal taste and preference.

The reality is, I just don't have the palate to differentiate the differences, like some pipe smokers can.

SERENTIL

This is a great thread and contains a lot of good information.  Thank you all for the insight.  Now... what to do with my hoard of bulk Nightcap.... ?

Cerozero

I typically store for longevity and not aging.  For this I use a Mason jar attachment on my Food Saver and pull a vacuum on the Mason jars.

You will typically destroy the lid once you open it due to the vacuum, however it seems to work very well so far. I do not however pull a vacuum

on the small jars I use for smoking.