@vtgrad2003 Right. Why should TPL be inclusive of people who think differently than you.
@RockyMountainBriar I have occasionally seen @motie2 on another pipe forum I check a couple of times a week. He is not nearly as active as he used to be on here and most of his posts have been about Magic Inch pipes and spiced rum.
That's the beauty of TPL Forum, we can express our ideas freely even though some Brothers may strongly disagree with our position on a specific subject. We might on occasion call each other names, yet it is a shining example of Free Speech and the Democratic foundation that makes this the greatest country on earth. Besides, I don't give a rat's ass if any of you bastards disagree with me!
@opipeman I agree. I would even sit and smoke my pipe alongside @vtgrad2003. (I wouldn’t share a pipe with him but I would share tobacco with him.)
Seriously, I think those of us who participate on the forum are basically good people who have thick skin and a sense of humor. Some of those who have left just took everything too seriously and too personal.
I have found that no matter how old people get, how educated they are, or where/how they live, eventually, it always turns into a middle school affair. For some reason (human nature?) people abhor non conformance to their ideas. I, for one, like the forum so I can see how other people are or are not similar to myself. And I would smoke with any of you guys/gals as well (you know, if I did that sort of thing, which I usually don't).
There are over 750 faculty at my university. In the 17 years I've been there, I've probably met a total of 4 conservatives (not including myself of course)...I'm not only exposed to diversity of thought (i.e., left as opposed to right), I'm immersed in it. If someone on the left comes on this forum, I will push back if I think there is a justifiable, alternative view to theirs. The problem for most democrats I debate is that their responses are usually limited because I always inject common sense into the argument, and doing so limits their ability to counter the argument. Some people simply can't handle common sense winning the debate because they always have to be in control of it (e.g., motie).
The bottom line is that when I came to this forum there were two people clearly controlling the discussion (we know who they were), yet from my observations, everyone else clearly were at least somewhat, conservative. All I did was simply push them back using logic and common sense--and that's why at least one of them left. As for Balisong? I don't know what his deal is...maybe he's sick, maybe he's sick of the forum, maybe he's sick of all us conservatives, who knows. But I would think, like I mentioned before, that a reasonable conclusion is one mentioned by someone else here--i.e., maybe he joined motie on another forum, and that was the reason for my "birds of a feather" comment--it makes sense, it's logical.
As @mhajec so coherently outlined, people tend to cluster with their "own kind", it's human nature, so to suggest that it was some sort of one-man cabal against them is not only ill-informed, but ludicrous.
Regardless of what world @PappyJoe wants to live in on this forum, this is clearly a forum with a shitload of conservative-leaning ideologists in it. You can either suck it up and stay, or not, I don't care. That's a personal problem they have to deal with, it's not my problem. There are other forums out there that don't have "political and social debate" threads, or "the world we live in threads", exactly for the purpose of being 'less offensive', but as @opipeman clearly says above, this forum is only for those that appreciate truly free speech (Elon Musk would be proud, ).
Just my two cents, guys, and yes, all of your are bastards! 🤣
@vtgrad2003 There you go again. I happen to be a less government is better conservative. Does that mean I have to be an asshole to everyone who doesn't agree with my conservative financial/political/gender and libertarian social view? No.
So, I find the world I live in on this forum to be just fine. I don't need everyone to agree with my viewpoints or to "bow down" to me because I'm old and decrepit unlike some people who have left the forum. And, I have never exerted any control on the discussions. Do I participate? Yep. Do I like to "fire" back at people? Yep.
It's true that I too would smoke a bowl or two with anyone of me brothers and sisters on this forum. It is a little strange that after awhile you get to thinking that you know people that you have never met. @PappyJoe is correct when he says that those of us who participate on the forum are basically good people. I think that could be said about pipe smokers in general. When someone expresses an opinion that is vastly different from mine, we have a saying down home "Bless his/her heart". I told my wife recently that pipe smokers are people that can be trusted. She said wasn't Hugh Hefner a pipe smoker. Why does she always have to be right, bless her heart? Maybe the name of our forum needs to be changed from "This Pipe Life" to "Pipe Smoking Bastards".
I think you guys are too altruistic. Just because someone does something you have an immense interest in, doesn't automatically make them 'good people' @opipeman. I get where you are coming from, at least partially, I just think the execution (so to speak) is flawed. The taliban hate the Russians, doesn't make them good people.
I, generally, don’t trust anyone until I meet them in person and make a decision at that point. I am rarely incorrect in the people I choose to associate with.
This discussion on this thread has given pause to think about my general views of all those people I've interacted with over the years as a member and director of the Chicago pipe collectors club.
And as I thought about it I realized I know more pipe smokers, carvers (pipe smokers all), tobacco industry folks blenders etc..... because of our show than I did in my professional life.
My observation is that with regard to (I'm calling them Pipe People (PP) ) PP in the United States, the break down would be 85 % conservative to 15% liberal.
Which sort of makes sense when you consider the risks associated with smoking in general and the proclivity of liberal extreme risk aversion.bias.
That said though, I have found that by and large pipe smokers of either mind are some of the most honest and down to earth folks I have interacted with; are there any a** holes, sure, but not many.
My wife, a non pipe smoker and old school conservative school teacher / Speech pathologist (schoolmarm) joined the CPCC just because a few other wives would attend and she realty liked the people.
Ok you bunch of pipe smoking bastards 🤠 (@opipeman classic) This is free speech. This is about sharing ideas, tastes, likes, dislikes, fun stuff, good stuff, bad stuff, and general life stuff. @PappyJoe is right, you can't take everything so seriously and personal. You are on a public free speech forum. If you put something out there be prepared for comments and deal with it, reply back or dont.
@mhajec; Point well taken. Having never met any of you Brothers all I can go by is what you write and how you conduct yourself on the forum. I haven't seen anything on TPL that would make me think it is populated by anything other than good folks.
I agree 100%. I grew up in Tidewater VA, back then home to about a dozen different military bases. I encountered men (not so many women back then) that were the epitome of a stand-up United States citizen/hero, but I also knew many that beat their wives and kids, and were simply horrible people to be around. I also knew many in between--soldiers that weren't there to necessarily "serve their country" as much as they were there for a job. My ex-wife's father joined the military because there were no jobs for high school graduates in West Virginia back in those days so he had no choice.
While I completely understand it when someone 'looks up' to a soldier or even praises one because they are wearing a uniform, we forget that these are simply men and women--the majority of whom never even expect to enter into combat or support a combat ready position when joining the service. Since becoming a professor, I know a lot of students on the GI bill that only served in the military for it. The same goes for police officers, firemen, etc. I'm always careful who I give praise to. I'll certainly shake the hand of a veteran and thank them for their service, but I have to know the person and/or what they've accomplished in the service before I praise them as a "hero".
@vtgrad2003 As a military retiree, let me say you are pretty much correct in the above post. There are dirtbags in every walk of life (including academia). There are a number of reasons why people enlist in the military, also. I readily admit that my enlistment in the Coast Guard was partially based on the promise of the G.I. Bill and a job offer from the marine towing company my father worked for. (He was a towboat captain pushing barges along the gulf coast and up and down the Mississippi river). It only took me 21 years, 9 months to get out.
As I said, there are dirtbags in every walk of life. I've known bonafide real-life heroes who later got caught and kicked out. I've known men who stayed in for 30 years and within a couple of years were in trouble with the law because they no longer had to follow the rules. I was involved in the courts-martials of service members for drugs, assault, sexual assault and theft among other offenses.
I've also met a number of "Vietnam Vets" who never actually served in Vietnam. (For the record, while I served from 1972 - 1993, I am neither a Vietnam veteran nor a Persian Gulf War veteran. I came close both for both but never was assigned "in-theater".)
My point is, serving and wearing a military uniform doesn't make you a hero and the majority of military personnel probably feels the same way. I've known real military heroes and for the most part they would tell you they were just doing their jobs when they earned the medals they wear.
For the record, I make an effort not to wear anything Coast Guard related on Memorial Day, Fourth of July or Veteran's Day because I hate random people coming up to me to shake my hand and say "Thank you for your service." I've always felt that most of those hand shakers are only doing it because it became a popular thing to do after 9/11.
Comments
Right. Why should TPL be inclusive of people who think differently than you.
@RockyMountainBriar
I have occasionally seen @motie2 on another pipe forum I check a couple of times a week. He is not nearly as active as he used to be on here and most of his posts have been about Magic Inch pipes and spiced rum.
I don't know anyone who is sick and depraved enough to "bite you." I've seen rabid dogs that would bite themselves before they bite you.
Yes. You work in academia. That and about $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Well of course!
I agree. I would even sit and smoke my pipe alongside @vtgrad2003. (I wouldn’t share a pipe with him but I would share tobacco with him.)
There you go again.
I happen to be a less government is better conservative. Does that mean I have to be an asshole to everyone who doesn't agree with my conservative financial/political/gender and libertarian social view? No.
So, I find the world I live in on this forum to be just fine. I don't need everyone to agree with my viewpoints or to "bow down" to me because I'm old and decrepit unlike some people who have left the forum. And, I have never exerted any control on the discussions. Do I participate? Yep. Do I like to "fire" back at people? Yep.
Hugh Hefner could be trusted as long as you weren't a young, good looking woman.
On the other hand, Josef Stalin definitely couldn't be trusted.
I forgot about Stalin. We shouldn't be judged by the likes of two tyrants.
This is free speech. This is about sharing ideas, tastes, likes, dislikes, fun stuff, good stuff, bad stuff, and general life stuff. @PappyJoe is right, you can't take everything so seriously and personal. You are on a public free speech forum. If you put something out there be prepared for comments and deal with it, reply back or dont.
This is not rocket science, it's a pipe forum 😁
Point well taken. Having never met any of you Brothers all I can go by is what you write and how you conduct yourself on the forum. I haven't seen anything on TPL that would make me think it is populated by anything other than good folks.
I'm the same way. My first impression when I meet someone is usually correct.
As a military retiree, let me say you are pretty much correct in the above post. There are dirtbags in every walk of life (including academia). There are a number of reasons why people enlist in the military, also. I readily admit that my enlistment in the Coast Guard was partially based on the promise of the G.I. Bill and a job offer from the marine towing company my father worked for. (He was a towboat captain pushing barges along the gulf coast and up and down the Mississippi river). It only took me 21 years, 9 months to get out.
As I said, there are dirtbags in every walk of life. I've known bonafide real-life heroes who later got caught and kicked out. I've known men who stayed in for 30 years and within a couple of years were in trouble with the law because they no longer had to follow the rules. I was involved in the courts-martials of service members for drugs, assault, sexual assault and theft among other offenses.
I've also met a number of "Vietnam Vets" who never actually served in Vietnam. (For the record, while I served from 1972 - 1993, I am neither a Vietnam veteran nor a Persian Gulf War veteran. I came close both for both but never was assigned "in-theater".)
My point is, serving and wearing a military uniform doesn't make you a hero and the majority of military personnel probably feels the same way. I've known real military heroes and for the most part they would tell you they were just doing their jobs when they earned the medals they wear.
For the record, I make an effort not to wear anything Coast Guard related on Memorial Day, Fourth of July or Veteran's Day because I hate random people coming up to me to shake my hand and say "Thank you for your service." I've always felt that most of those hand shakers are only doing it because it became a popular thing to do after 9/11.