Also for any member interested, David Halberstam, The Coldest Winter, is a fabulous book on the Korean War. Was nominated for The Pulitzer Prize in history in 2007. Have read it twice already, that good.
And to your father as well much respect. I'm going to throw this out there, maybe some members know this and maybe some don't. Their is a program that is nation wide called Honor Flights, meaning that veterans of W.W II, Korea, and Vietnam, can be flown for free
Something happened,anyway if the veterans have not been to see the memorials they will be flown to DC on commercial airlines free of charge. A family member may go as sort of a care taker if desired, however I'm not sure it's free for a family member, volunteers will meet the veterans and take care of their special needs once they land in DC. They will see W.W. II Memorial, Vietnam Veterans Memorial, Korean Veterans Memorial, Arlington ton National Cemetery and the changing Of the guard at the Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier. They will return home that night. Family members do not have to worry about a loved one, veterans are treated with respect and are given the honor they deserve. Read many accounts of veterans, all saying it was one of the best things they have ever experienced. Google Honor Flights and I'm certain you will be able to find all pertinent information.
Lost my dad's brother to that war, I'm told by family my dad was never the same after his death. I salute all who participate in the defence of this country.
Having explored both the European and Pacific Theaters of WWII for a couple of decades, I decided to start learning more about the Korean War and have read several books from both the government's viewpoint and from a historian's viewpoint. The Korean conflict was a lot more complicated than what the government at the time wanted the public to believe - and a lot different. Some historians have referred to Korea as being the first Vietnam.
Now, don't anyone get bent out of shape about me insulting the military personnel who served in Korea. Those who served did so honorably just as those who fought in WWI, WWII and Vietnam. The problems with Korea started at the top of the South Korean government. In the 1950s many of the people in power over there had supported and served Japan during WWII while the leaders of North Korea had actually fought against the Japanese. South Korea actually committed more atrocities in the war than the North Koreans did. It was also MacArthurs disregard or dismissal of his own intelligence reports that lead him to push U.S. forces too far north and precipitated the Chinese entry into the conflict. He simply believed that the U.S. should have directly invaded China.
At least, that are some of the claims made in books written by such authors as I.F. Stone, John Merrill, Steven Casey and Callum MacDonlad.
One more thing about MacArthur. Most history books paint him as an ultimate warrior type of guy who was a great leader. I don't have any proof, but I think most of those books were written to "polish the statue" of MacArthur and overlook his negative aspects much like you won't find many books about John F. Kennedy's failures.
I understand what you are saying, yes the South Korea did commit atrocities as well as the North. The guy Syngman Rhee in charge of South Korea was every bit a corrupt and dictatorial leader as we have seen.Up until only one year later we were supporting Ngo Diem in South Vietnam, basically the same scenario. I to am a fan of I.F Stone, his book The Secret History of the Korean War-1950-1951 is an eye opener. As far as MacArthur is concerned also agree.One more thing about him, he was also in charge of tear gassing and burning down shelters of veterans that were trying to the bonuses they were promised for volunteering to fight in W.W. 1. Better known as the Bonus Army. Patton and Eisenhower were also involved. Two veterans were killed and scores injured Taking action against fellow vets that served with these three.In my opinion a black mark on MacArthur, Eisenhower, and Patton. Well thank you for the comment.
@buflosab I have just started reading “Refighting the Last War - Command and Crisis in Korea 1950-1953 by D. Clayton James. He points out that Korea was the first time where the Department of State had a direct influence on military strategy, operations and military policy. In other words, people who had never fought in a war was making military operational decisions solely as from what they felt was politically expedient.
My belief is when politicians tie the military’s hands from an operational standpoint they guarantee defeat.
Sorry for the delay in response to your post@PappyJoe. Sounds like an interesting book,haven't come across as of yet. I agree with your above statement, however slightly disagree, if it wasn't for civilian leadership MacArthur would have pushed further North and possibly into China and lord knows what would become of that situation.Also it was JFK that stood up to the military namely General Curtis Le May that wanted a nuclear war with the Soviet Union so bad he good taste it,(during the Cuban Missile Crisis). My feeling is this is a very complicated question pertaining to who is to be trusted more in the decision to go to war.Some of the problem is the fact that Congress has absolved it's responsibility to declare war since 1941, instead pushed that responsibility on the Executive office and other Federal agencies.I know we've had this resolution and that resolution signed by Congress in various wars since W.W.Ii. So when things go bad they can say I was just listening to the President and going by the details we were being briefed on. I know this is a simplistic view, maybe a small part of a much more complicated question.
@buflosab - I actually agree with what you are saying. Undoubtedly, MacArthur would have pushed too far because the military doctrine up to Korea had been one of total annihilation in an all out war. James points out that Korea was the first limited war. in fact, he points all that MacArthur's two successors also wanted to conduct a war of attrition and completely destroy North Korea before pursuing peace. All of them underestimated the Chinese factor.
While the doctrine of an all out war for Korea was wrong, it's my belief that the way the politicians wanted to carry out the war - as a limited war and just fighting to hold in place - was equally as bad of a choice. That policy in affect was nothing more than pushing the North Koreans across the 38th Parallel and stopping. That would just let the enemy, regroup, resupply and attack again. while claiming a moral and political victory because they stopped the U.S. and ROK forces from entering North Korea.
When you negotiate from a defensive position, you are negotiating from a weaker position.
@PappyJoe,Thank you, I was actually surprised and maybe didn't remember that Ridgeway was thinking along the same lines concerning China as was MacArthur. I sort off always thought of M. Ridgeway was sort of a calming effect on the way the war was being waged, and I guess he was in some aspects, learn something new everyday. Thanks for the great conversation, kind of nice to get off Pipes and Tobbaco once in awhile.
@PappyJoe, I must say your theory is as legitimate as anybody's else's.From 1947 up 1973 things that happened were all under the context of the Cold War, before I went into the Army and eventually Vietnam I can still remember LBJ saying if we don't stop North Vietnam their we will have to stop them on our shores.Really. When I got a bit wiser, I thought to myself how are they gonna get over here in their sampans. As the saying goes older and wiser.
@PappyJoe, have to disagree a bit, I just never really bought into that,just a easy way to label individuals or groups that according to the powers that be weren't towing the company line. Just my feeling, not saying I'm right or wrong.
Comments
My uncle was in Korea...I'll have to look for the book, thank you.
I'm told by family my dad was never the same after his death.
I salute all who participate in the defence of this country.
Now, don't anyone get bent out of shape about me insulting the military personnel who served in Korea. Those who served did so honorably just as those who fought in WWI, WWII and Vietnam. The problems with Korea started at the top of the South Korean government. In the 1950s many of the people in power over there had supported and served Japan during WWII while the leaders of North Korea had actually fought against the Japanese. South Korea actually committed more atrocities in the war than the North Koreans did. It was also MacArthurs disregard or dismissal of his own intelligence reports that lead him to push U.S. forces too far north and precipitated the Chinese entry into the conflict. He simply believed that the U.S. should have directly invaded China.
At least, that are some of the claims made in books written by such authors as I.F. Stone, John Merrill, Steven Casey and Callum MacDonlad.
One more thing about MacArthur. Most history books paint him as an ultimate warrior type of guy who was a great leader. I don't have any proof, but I think most of those books were written to "polish the statue" of MacArthur and overlook his negative aspects much like you won't find many books about John F. Kennedy's failures.
My belief is when politicians tie the military’s hands from an operational standpoint they guarantee defeat.
While the doctrine of an all out war for Korea was wrong, it's my belief that the way the politicians wanted to carry out the war - as a limited war and just fighting to hold in place - was equally as bad of a choice. That policy in affect was nothing more than pushing the North Koreans across the 38th Parallel and stopping. That would just let the enemy, regroup, resupply and attack again. while claiming a moral and political victory because they stopped the U.S. and ROK forces from entering North Korea.
When you negotiate from a defensive position, you are negotiating from a weaker position.
At least, that's my theory.