Cellar Containers

JLehman5290

I don't have a huge cellar yet. Just stocking up on some Frog Morton tins and bulk buys from my local tobacconist. I have been using regular mason jars and am wondering if anyone uses the jars with the larger rubber seal, like you would see blended tobacco in your local shop? I've also been storing my bulk buys into smaller jars, so that once a jar is opened I'm not drying out larger amounts.

ghostsofpompeii

@JLehman5290 Unless you have the room for those jars at the tobacco shop I'd stick with the Mason jars you're presently using. One of the members here recently acquired a bunch of the jars from a tobacco shop that you're talking about, and they make for a great display if you have a dedicate shelf or bookcase. But for the majority of us the Mason jar is a cheap and effective way of storing and keeping tobacco fresh for the long haul. And after a spell as your cellar starts taking over your house you'll appreciate the fact that they're much easier to store at take up less space than those larger fancy jars from the tobacco shop. But if you are fortunate enough to have settled on one specific blend then that fancy jar might be just the ticket to dress up your desk, right next to your pipe rack..  

xDutchx

I would have to agree with ghostsofpompeii. Those classic collectible jars, will keep you up several times a night, rehydrating your tobacco to obtain proper humidity levels. The ideal cost effective scenario, would be to store your tobacco in mason jars, using a wine bottle wax seal, in order to encourage proper fermentation. in an oxygen rich environment.

PappyJoe

I mainly use the half pint wide-mouth jars from Ball. They are squat, hold about 2 oz. of tobacco and maintains a good seal. I also have 5 larger bail type jars which I use for larger amounts of a blend. I haven't had any problem with the tobacco in them drying out. In fact, in early December I pulled one jar out of my cellar that was put in there in 2014 and the tobacco still needed drying out a little before smoking. I would not use the jars like at the two B&M's near me. They have the large rubber seals but basically the lid and seal acts like a big stopper. If you have one and use it for your daily tobacco, they are fine but aren't really made for storage.

Charles

I Agree with @PappyJoe, I use the Mason jars for storage and have not yet had any problems.  Glass seems to be the best storage vessel for tobacco as well as food.

motie2

I use the wire fastening ones with a rubber -- or better yet -- a silicone seal.

Woodsman

I use the 1 Quart Wide Mouth Mason Jars for my bulks, I have a 2 Quart Snap Ring for Tobacco like Black Cavendish that I use in blending, The BC is very moist with humectant and I don't think it would ferment well so I often open it for use. 

xDutchx

Wow, you guys must be independently wealthy using those bail mason jars. I did the math on using the bail mason jars, in place of the large standard quart jars, and here's what I came up with.

The largest bail mason jar I could find at my local Walmart, were 1 pint and there are 2 pints in the large quart jars I normally use for bulk blends. Since it takes twice as many bail mason jars in the pint size, to equal the storage volume in a case of standard quart jars, here are the figures I came up with when I did the math.

I can get a case of 12 standard quart mason jars for around $11.00 including tax. The bail mason jars cost around $7.00 each including tax, and I need twice as many of them, in order to equal the storage volume of a case of standard quart jars. $7.00 x 24 equals $168.00.

I can purchase a 1 lb bag of wine bottle sealing wax beads for $22.85 on ebay, including shipping and handling, which will allow me to dip 2 cases of standard 1 quart mason jars. This brings the total expenditure per case of mason jars, including wax used to seal the rings properly, to $22.42. When I compare $168.00 to $22.42, it makes me wonder how I could ever save any money buying my tobacco in bulk, if I used the bail mason jars exclusively for convenience.

If I were to use them, the same way I use Tupperware containers for short term use, to store the tobacco I am currently smoking, they might be affordable that way. However, one thing I like about Tupperware style containers, is they are plastic, so I don't need to worry if I drop one on a tile or cement floor. Another thing I like about plastic, is that it is lightweight anytime I need to transport it.

I will agree that glass is superior for long term storage, but if we heat the jars, and take out all the oxygen the traditional way when canning, in order to get the button to drop and seal, then we are removing all the oxygen needed for fermentation. If we are storing aromatics and Latakia blends, the oxygen is not as critical, however most Latakia blends contain Virginias and Orientals, which can benefit slightly from a couple years in the jar.

I do wish the bail mason jars were more affordable, because they would make cellaring bulk tobacco a little less time consuming, than using the wine bottle wax to do it the proper way. However, if I am going to go to the trouble of buying my tobacco in bulk to save the money, I am going to go ahead and put forth the effort to jar the tobacco properly in the cheapest possible fashion. That way, when I finally get around to cracking a jar open, I will have saved some money over buying tin tobacco, while at the same time, having a quality aged tobacco to smoke, just as I would have if I took the easy way out and paid more for tin tobacco.

It reminds me of a classic letter I received from Blue Cross and Blue Shield a few years ago. "The current treatment is being discontinued, due to the fact that it is not cost effective."

At least if you buy a case of bail mason jars for $168.00, you can carry them back to Walmart for a refund, when you decide they were not cost effective, as apposed to your medical premiums, which you ain't getting back.

judandhispipe

@xDutchx, are you advocating actually using a canning or vacuum seal method for storing tobacco? That seems to be what you are talking about with the "proper" way. I have never seen consensus that a process like that is necessary for storing bulk tobacco. Indeed, if you are actually trying to get the change that can come through long term storage - proper "cellaring" - then you will defeat that by vacuum sealing the tobacco. You don't want to keep out all the air; you just don't want it to dry out.
I found pint wide mouth jars for $12.99; I did not try to look for a lower price. A case of 12 will hold about 3 pounds of tobacco. For proper long term storage, when you aren't getting in and out of them, but leaving them stashed, that is not that much of an investment. That three pounds probably cost you $100.
It takes me about 15 minutes to jar up a pound of bulk tobacco. 

PappyJoe

@xDutchx - if you are paying $7 for a quart size bail type jar, you are being ripped off. I've found them for as low as $2.99 at hobby and craft stores  like Hobby Lobby or Michaels. They are even cheaper if you buy them at flea markets, collectible shops or yard sales. I just clean and sterilize before using.

Also, those are not what I normally use for long term storage but for blends I am smoking in my daily/weekly rotation. The exceptions are the 3 oz. tins of tobacco I buy like Peterson Holiday Season. I put those blends in the bail type jars for long term storage. If the rubber or silicone seal is in good condition, they will keep the tobacco moist.

For the record, I don't buy a lot of bulk blends. Mostly I buy the 1.75 oz. tins and move the tobacco into Ball 1/2 pint widemouth jars for storage. 

xDutchx

@PappyJoe, I am one of those misers who usually only shops at Walmart, because 9 times out of 10 they use their power, to beat their name brand suppliers into submission. Knowing how efficient they are at turning major competitors into exclusively generic suppliers, I tend to assume that I am saving lots of time and gas, not driving around in circles.

@judandhispipe, I am actually advocating the exact opposite. If a container has no oxygen left inside, fermentation (aging) will not occur.

Sadly, some of the best bulk blends suitable for long term aging are very scarce right now. A 250 gram box of Sam Gawith Full Virginia Flake, usually goes for around $90, and that quantity is just a little more than a half pound. Conversely, you can get a pound of Billy Budd for around $35, but it's potential to age is drastically less than the Sam Gawith flakes.

As for jarring time, I can jar up flakes, a lot faster than I can jar up ribbon cuts, since the flakes already have the bejesus pressed out of them. :^)

motie2

THere's a sort of discount store here in Northern NJ that sells Ball Jars with the two piece lid, at a discount. It's called Christmas Tree shop, even though it's open year round and doesn't sell Christmas trees, although in Dec. it features a lot of Christmas stuff.

I still prefer the glass jars with the wire and gasket closing mechanism

judandhispipe

I must have misread, then, @xDutchx.

Londy3

I just use mason jars. I think it's a simple inexpensive solution for storage. You can even get the little humidor disk things if you need to store long term. It's nice if you want to make them look good by making labels for the lids so you can display them in a rack on their side or upright in a drawer like I do. Anyhow, it works for me.

xDutchx

@motie2, I suppose if you are only going to purchase 1 jar, the bail mason jars would be extremely affordable. LoL

motie2

It varies. One shop near hear has a one quart wire/seal jar at three bucks.
Four two part lid Mason jars are six bucks. 

Woodsman

There are some Jellies and Sauces packed in various size Mason type jars. when they're empty I clean the glass part thoroughly and buy a box of caps, they work just as well as new jars although they're better for tins than pounds as they are 20 oz. or less in size. and a box of caps is way less than a case of jars.

Charles

@Woodsman -  Very interesting!  I also usually wash out and re-use glass jars but was not aware that new caps are available as a separate purchase.  Would be a lot cheaper reusing glass jars if the lids can be replaced since there seems to be no way to reuse the original jar lids without impairing the flavor and taste of the tobacco.  Where did you find new lids for your jars? 

Oddjob27

@Charles I was able to find lids and “rings” on amazon. I’ve been getting mine from there, it’s not bad usually about $10-12 depending on the lid and ring size for a 24 count.

Charles

@Oddjob27 - thanks!  Much appeciated!!!

Woodsman

The jars I referred to are Classico Sauces that are  20 oz mason jars, look at mason jars on the web and you'll see their their smaller "Jewel" containers that are for jams and jellies are good for 2 oz, of tobacco. I get my lids from Walmart or online.

Charles

Thanks @Woodsman much appreciated!  

RockyMountainBriar

I use the same jars as PappyJoe for most of my tobaccos.  They will hold 4oz. but you really have to want to get it all in there.  Which is about the same as 100 grams, still have to pack it down if a full tin is transferred.  I do have 4 vintage Comoy's tobacco jars with the "3-Prong brass interlock"? lids.  They screw down tightly on a rubber seal and work well for 16 oz. of tobacco or more?  My go-to favorite bulk tobaccos such as Lane BCA and RLP-6 are stored in a couple.  I just transfer 2-4 oz. to my mason jar that I use from and replenish from the bulk as needed.  Oh, if anyone happens to get or have one of these types of tobacco jars and the seal is missing or dried out,  take a trip to the local hardware store and buy some replacement toilet tank gaskets.  There are different sizes, but I found some that work perfectly.  As far as replacement lids and rings for the Mason jars, I get them at my local ACE Hardware store.

RockyMountainBriar

I will also mention that when I first started putting my tobaccos in Mason jars I was worried about the moisture and drying out so I put humidity buttons in all of the jars and the tobacco was actually too moist.  I found I had nothing to worry about and there is no need for the buttons. If the lid is keep tight, the moisture pretty much stays the same, and that is here in Montana with very low humidity.  I have since removed all of the humidity buttons from the jars.  If you get a tobacco in a pouch or from?? that is too dry, then you can put a button in and rehydrate the tobacco to your preferred moisture level.

As a side note/observation, I noticed that I could smell fresh tobacco emanating from my cabinet.  This perplexed and worried me trying to figure out which jars were not sealed and hence possibly drying out.  I determined that since my jars are not actually vacuum sealed, they were "breathing" with temperature/pressure changes.  I would hear the jar lids "pop" occasionally.  This should actually work very well for aging tobacco as there is some air transfer once in awhile. I just have to make sure they don't dry out because of it. 

So far, I have had some jars for at least 4 years and they are not noticeably drier than when originally jarred.  If I ever decided they needed a better seal, I would put the caps on lightly tightened and set the jars in a shallow pan of very hot 150-200 degree water for a few minutes, then remove them from the pan and tighten the lids down.  Ultimately the jar will pull a vacuum and seal much tighter.  Then they should only "breath" at higher than normal room temperatures, or until the seal is broken to enjoy the leaf once again.

PappyJoe

@RockyMountainBriar - thanks for the tip on the hardware store. I've never thought about that and I have one jar that needs the seal replaced.

Charles

@RockyMountainBriar thanks for the hardware store tip, like @pappyjoe, I never thought to look there. Also, great advice regarding replacing jar seals.  I never thought of checking plumbing supplies in the hardware store. 

Oddjob27

Didn't want to start a new thread since this MIGHT be related to cellaring...So I received about 10 x 1oz samples of tobacco. But I'm short on mason jars to store them individually. Any recommendations? Maybe just store the ones I won't be smoking till later in the jars and then leave the ones I will be smoking in their bags? Thanks in advance. 

Woodsman

Store the bags you wont be smoking without opening in one jar, then go back to them when you're ready to try them.

Oddjob27

@Woodsman Thanks! My concern was how long it would take before the plastic bags altered the flavor of the tobacco. I’m planning on smoking the tobacco fairly regularly to try them out. Thanks again.

Charles

I came across some additional information about cellaring tobacco on this site.  Pretty much the same information everyone has stated at some point but it is worth perusing.  Not sure if anyone has read it so here is the link to it:  https://thispipelife.com/tpl-article/38/

xDutchx

Here are a couple links that should keep those who are interested busy for quite some time. Greg Pease, and Russ Ouellette (Willette) are masters of their craft, and can educate those who are willing to learn what they have to teach.

http://glpease.com/BriarAndLeaf/?cat=2

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=russ+ouellette+pipe+show&&view=detail&mid=74FD2DE4546C80A2C51574FD2DE4546C80A2C515&FORM=VRDGAR